I'm not a fan of injector cleaner. If your gas tank is metal, then this product is a no-no.

Even if not, you probably now have dirty injectors.

 

... you probably now have dirty injectors.

Yes, very possible the injector cleaner dislodged something and clogged an injector.

I think it's better to use these products either regularly or not at all.

Using them 'out of the blue' can dislodge long built up gum/varnish etc. and cause problems. Using them more regularly can (possibly) prevent build ups in the first place.

 

What model year is the van?
How much gasoline was in the tank when you poured the cleaner in?

It could just be a coincidence or it could be a bottle of crap...
Though if you dumped the bottle of cleaner in the tank and just let it idle away without driving and mixing the tank contents, LEVY is probably correct (with the assumption of dirt clogging injectors now)

 

I just did a set of fuel injectors. I looked into trying to clean my own, off the vehicle. I have a hundred some odd thousand miles on the odometer.

Each injector has a 10 micron filter basket on each inlet and is about the size of the cone tip 3/8" of a sharpened pencil. I have ascertained that is is near impossible to clean these filters and they are press fit into the inlet for a one time use.

The injectors are easy enough to remove and after a bunch of research, I believe that the only correct way for them to be restored is to send them out to be flow checked, ultrasonically cleaned and then flow checked again.

I even considered getting a machine to perform all those steps in my home shop and to make the cleaning services available to friends and local automotive repair shops.
I found there are many offerings online, eBay and even your local craigslist. The average is $25 each making a 6 cylinder cost about three days and additional $7 shipping to the service provider. For $25 they should pay the return shipping. So $135

I found a company in Idaho, Mr Injector, that I would use if I don't end up getting a machine. You see, I have over 40 injectors in service and that adds up to over a grand to service all of my injectors. I can get a new china built machine and the fluid, cost for about $600, and i'll be able to perform my own warranty work... Of course, I suspect this machine is going to be of the quality I would expect from Harbor Freight tools.

Mr Injector's machine is closer to a ten thousand dollar set up. He offers his service for $17.50 each plus $7 return shipping. You can virtually meet him and tour his shop by YouTube "Professional fuel injector service"

 

This is a 2005 base T & C. I bought it about a year ago, and did the fuel injector cleaning at that time with no bad effects. I also installed a bottle of Sea Foam on the way home Sunday.

 

What I was thinking last night, was that your Techron (and others have advised this also) may have caused something to dislodge or scoured the interior of the fuel pipes, hoses, tank, etc... causing the injectors to partially clog.

Here are the filters that are at each injector.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/401109570614

These probably captured the majority of any debris as that is their intention. These parts are replaced during off vehicle, mail order, injector cleaning service.
If this is really your problem, you may be able to replace these filters yourself, but seeing that you have the injectors in hand, why not just send them out to restore their performance to near new?

Let us consider, that as happenstance has it, that it is just a coincidence that you happened to dose your fuel with Techron within 25 miles that something else went wrong. ARE YOU CERTAIN THAT YOU ARE NOT EXPERIENCING AN IGNITION FAULT?

There is also a common design fault that has the fuel injector wiring hazardously close to being baked by the exhaust. That may be your fault and that is how I stumbled into my injector odyssey, my van was running rough, hard to start, and I decided to check my fuel injector wiring harness before it damaged my computer.

Here are a set of injectors that are already cleaned and flow matched that you could have in hand before you even start. (Less than $15 each)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Si...acifica-3-8/111303546589?epid=1228634784&hash=item19ea3556dd:g:n5YAAOSwkjpZxBU1

** I found that you will want to look at the existing fuel injectors and see what color stripe you have (you can see these are bluish grey) make sure you order the same stripe color as there are subtle differences) Amazon also has some injectors available online. I ordered a set from there based on year, make, model that did not match color or performance. I will replace mine again with the gray ones that I removed or have my original ones serviced. *AVOID the Chinese knock off injectors. get Siemans DEKA (OEM)

 

What I was thinking last night, was that your Techron (and others have advised this also) may have caused something to dislodge or scoured the interior of the fuel pipes, hoses, tank, etc... causing the injectors to partially clog.

WOW, you are a genious! :lol: :lol:

Yes, very possible the injector cleaner dislodged something and clogged an injector.

I think it's better to use these products either regularly or not at all.

Using them 'out of the blue' can dislodge long built up gum/varnish etc. and cause problems. Using them more regularly can (possibly) prevent build ups in the first place.

 

Let's pull the engine apart and check every o-ring and gasket... :nut:

First, don't touch the injector harness - it was redesigned and re-routed on 04 and later models. This is a common problem on early 4th gen (01-03)

Second, your van being '05 does not have a fuel filter other than the pump pickup 'sock'.

Third, it's important to know how concentrated the cleaner was when you ran it through the system. If the van had a 1/4 tank and you dumped a full bottle in there is entirely different than if it had 3/4 (5 gallons VS 15 gallons is a big difference).

If it's running rough, does it have any pending OBD codes?

Don't tear anything apart until you replace the fuel that's in the tank. If it doesn't improve with new, clean fuel than you know you have a problem.
Things happen, who knows what was in that bottle of cleaner...

 

X2 Atoman & Levy's comments...

My thoughts -- check for pending OBD II codes using a code reader --> that will tell you whether the problem is cylinder specific or generic. If you have a check engine light on, it may lead you down unexpected directions.

Once you have the codes, post back. Other ideas -- fill up the tank and see if diluting what you have in the tank improves the performance.

 

I poured the bottle of Techron in, and immediately filled the fuel tank up. BTW, these minivans have a plastic fuel tank...And now I'm down to less than 1/2 of a tank and it's still running like a dog crapping razor blades..I am going to the North American International Auto Show in downtown Detroit tomorrow, so working on the van will have to wait till Thursday. Thanks for all your responses. I've been watching youtube videos on replacing the rear spark plugs (which the PO said he never did) and on fuel injector replacement. On my previous van, removal of the air cleaner box made it easier to get to the #1 and #3 spark plugs. I had a 2003 T & C. It committed suicide on a deer.

 

I've been watching youtube videos on replacing the rear spark plugs (which the PO said he never did)

With that bit of info, that should be your first priority... (at least take one of em out and see what it looks like)
If those front plugs looked brand new you'll probably get away with just 3 plugs for the back. Otherwise get a set of Champion double platinum plugs for it and check gap on new plugs before they go in.

Since this is a 'waste spark' system, make sure all of the plugs match and have correct gap.

If you take the wiper tray (cowl) off, you'll have plenty of room. It is doable by touch/feel without any dis-assembly though.

The poor running engine might just be a coincidence or the cleaner might have dislodged deposits from intake parts (passages or valves) and 'fouled' the already marginal plugs...

 

The injectors you suggested from Ebay are for a 3.8. I have a 3.3. Thanks, anyway.

 

I did catch that and thought I had put in a 3.3 link prior to posting, sorry.

I do stand by replacing like with like. So if you go that route, make sure that you get what was installed (check the color band or part number)
I mistakenly sourced injectors based on make and model and later found that they had a different specification.
And, I wouldn't get the aftermarket clone injectors I'd stay with OEM.

Atoman is 100% correct that troubleshooting should start with the basics and we should not get too far ahead of ourselves based on assumptions. I would not tear anything apart before I tried running on a source of known good fuel 1st.

 

The ones I removed did not look new. There was a buildup of hardened grease on the porcelain that the plug boot did not cover, and on the wrench flats which I removed with a hand wire brush, and brushed the threads before applying the anti seize. The center electrode looked OK, and the side electrode did not look too worn. The plugs were Autolite Iridiums. It is also possible I got a bad tank of fuel, too. A lot of possible variables here...

 

Slapshot, I had pretty much the same situation, and replaced my fuel injectors with Bosch remanufactured ones, selling on ebay for about $40 a set. Not too difficult of a job, and the van ran like new afterwards. I like to think that for that price, replacing fuel injectors should be considered regular maintenance at 150,000 miles.

 

I got a bad tank of gas once and injector cleaner made it worse. After stalling in traffic a few times I struggled out to an open highway and wound it out to redline through all speeds, (automatic transmission - passing gear) a couple of times and I had no problems after. When i did my next tuneup I did have all the injectors flushed.

 

I would drain the gas tank and refill with a few gallons of fuel only. Maybe you got a bad batch of fuel.

 

Bad batch of fuel is possible, maybe the gas station accidently filled it's gas tanks with diesel instead?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ultramar-dieselfuel-gas-prescott-1.4498276

 

Yes, it is very possible, so far no one have doubted that.

Couple of years ago, Chevron recalled fuel from many Chevron and Texaco gas stations in Houston, TX.

Still, I found it very, very unlikely as being the cause of O.P. problems. Since it all started after pouring injectors cleaner into the gas tank, common sense tells you that alone might be the cause of those problems.

Symptoms started after pouring injectors cleaner, not after gas fill up.

By the way, I also doubt spark plugs have anything to do with his problem.

Seen people filling diesel on a gas engine, it will produce a lot (a lot) of white smoke, so that is not the problem either.

 

No, that would be my bright idea....

 

Would disconnecting the battery cables and touching the cable ends together help? maybe a computer reset is all that's needed?

 

:Wow1:

Would disconnecting the battery cables and touching the cable ends together help? .......

Maybe, make sure you disconnect the cables at the battery and not the chassis before you connect them together...

 

Today I am going to fill the van up with (I hope) fresh fuel. And run it for a while, then disconnect battery cable for 5 min or so, and see what that does. If it's no better, remove the fuel injectors and take them over to a service in Jackson, MI that renovates injectors for $20 each. The weather is going to be very nice today, (sunny and 53F).

 

Well, I filled it up with fresh Marathon fuel, and after 7-8 miles it's not running any better. I'm going to disconnect the battery momentarily and see if that works. If not, I'm removing the injectors.

 

Well, I filled it up with fresh Marathon fuel, and after 7-8 miles it's not running any better. I'm going to disconnect the battery momentarily and see if that works. If not, I'm removing the injectors.

If your vehicle is still driveable, I think you should wait for a week or two, to make sure all debris released or dislodged by the injectors cleaner have already reached the injectors, itherwise your new injectors may get clogged too. Make dure uou have new injectors ready, removing and inspecting injectors only doesn't help much.

Still, I found it very, very unlikely as being the cause of O.P. problems. Since it all started after pouring injectors cleaner into the gas tank, common sense tells you that alone might be the cause of those problems.

Symptoms started after pouring injectors cleaner, not after gas fill up.

By the way, I also doubt spark plugs have anything to do with his problem.
.

 

So yesterday I removed my injectors and 2 of the rear spark plugs. The plugs had the center electrodes burned down below the porcelain. They were Champions, maybe original? I could not get the center rear plug out then because the metal clip from the plug boot had pulled out of the boot and left itself attached to the tip of the plug, and a plug socket would not fit down over it where the plug would come out. Today I had to use a pair of small vice grips to clamp on to the metal clip, and yanked it off the end of the plug. The plug that came out was horrible. The side electrode was burned down about 1/4 of its length. I have never seen plugs so worn out as these! And it still got 25 mpg going down the highway. I have ordered 3 new Autolite Iridiums to match the plugs in the front cylinders, they will be arriving Monday afternoon. I also bought a new set of plug wires, a new PCV valve. and gaskets for the EGR tube ends that sits on top of the upper manifold. I vacuumed out the valley on the engine, and cleaned the fuel injector holes in the manifold with q wire brush, with the vacuum running, then swabbed the holes down with some carb cleaner and Q tips. The PO had been too lazy to remove the old coil when it died, so he just laid the new coil on top of it, and put a big tywrap around both to hold it. Apparently he did not know about the 10MM nut under the power steering reservoir that can just be loosened and allows the reservoir to be slid up and out of the way. My rebuilt injectors are supposed to arrive Thursday Feb 1. I guess it'll just sit till then.

 

Post pics of the old plugs!

 

Yea, if you found the coil zip tied to the top of the engine the rear plugs were probably original...
FWIW that 'defective' coil might not be defective, it might have been just a 'quick' fix to get it to run so PO could sell... (that's the only reason I can think of why it would still run ok with those rear plugs in the condition you describe)

 

My 3.8L with 114,000 that was maintained by a (chrysler dealership) for my mom appeared to still have the original sparkplugs in the rear bank. When I replaced them, two were gapped nickle, meaning that it appeared that the edge of a nickle could be used as a gap gauge.

I took the fuel rail and snapped in the injectors. Then I connected and hung a 4 foot piece of fuel hose which I filled with mineral spirits from under a step ladder. This worked as a fuel tank. I put shop air at 45 PSI (3 bar) on the hose to simulate the designed fuel pressure from the pump and used the injector wire harness to excite the individual injectors from a 9 volt battery. There is one common ground and an individual contact in the plug for each injector.
I had three good spray patterns, two split streams, and one that sprayed sideways. All six worked and the coil ohm resistance was consistent. They were obviously due to be cleaned or replaced.
I also checked, that when closed, that they didn't form a drip (an injector leak).
I was curious to see how bad they were. I also performed this on my replacement set and was satisfied that they were all serviceable.
The van ran... runs great after I found that one hidden evac hose that I forgot to connect on the passenger side, backside, down low. I found it with a smoke generator after twice looking for the vacuum leak by reassembly of the plenum.

 

I took pics of the spark plugs, and since I have never posted pics on this site, being a technoboob, I can't see how to do that...

 

Ask Caraman, he's the expert!

 

Today I picked up he parts that came in, the 3 new Autolite Iridium spark plugs, the gaskets for the upper intake manifold, and a PCV valve. I put anti seize on the plugs and installed them, along with the 3 remaining plug wires. I swabbed dielectric grease inside the plug boots, and the coil boots before attaching them. Now I'm battling the PCV valve. It doesen't want to come out. I watched a couple of Youtube videos, but no one had an effective way to remove it. It seems the rubber it seats into hardens up, and it's hard to get enough leverage to pull it up and out. I'm thinking of heating the area up with my heat gun, and see how that works. It is pretty cold now, but it's supposed to be around 40F tomorrow.

 

It's a real pain in the neck to get out for sure. I put a small break in the part of my valve cover that the PCV valve goes into when I was taking my PCV valve out a couple years ago. I was using vice grips and a wood block for leverage. Not sure I'd recommend the same for you because my work resulted in broken plastic... Fortunately, it wasn't bad enough to cause the new PCV valve any trouble when seating it. The rubber O-ring on the old PCV valve was petrified solid, though, which is what made it so difficult to remove. You need lots of leverage, but at the same time a) you can't really press against a plastic valve cover too much and b) it's difficult to grab the old PCV valve tightly enough.

The heat sounds like an interesting idea that may work - I would also wonder if there is something out there that soaks in like penetrating oil but makes rubber parts (like O-rings) softer? If there was something like that, I would spray it around the PCV valve, turn/twist the PCV valve in its socket a little, and let it "soak" before hitting it with the heat and leverage.

 

PCV valve is a PITA. Seems like most folks use a vise grip and some means of leveraging it upward out of the valve cover. I personally removed the valve cover (since I was doing valve cover gaskets as well), clamped onto the PCV valve nipple with a vise grip, and then pulled like crazy while sort of standing on the valve cover with the front of both feet (one foot one each side of the valve). With much effort, it popped out... somewhat violently. If you go the vise grip route, just be careful as the nipple on my valve nearly tore off of the PCV valve body in the process... maybe I clamped too low on the nipple?